tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post9076060003489459076..comments2023-06-20T07:55:50.913-07:00Comments on A Good and Joyful Thing: But What About Jesus?Susan Brown Snookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18082261006216548874noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-89322691487395417282012-07-04T13:32:09.962-07:002012-07-04T13:32:09.962-07:00Absolutely. Amen!Absolutely. Amen!brigidpaigehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957161561477989730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-34616369377443582342012-06-12T19:33:39.922-07:002012-06-12T19:33:39.922-07:00Thanks, Saint A. I have been told that I'm to...Thanks, Saint A. I have been told that I'm too idealistic, but I do hope we can find a space in which we can all listen to each other, prayerfully and discerningly trying to find the voice of the Spirit in each other's voices.Susan Brown Snookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18082261006216548874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-20797480495141927532012-06-12T19:05:14.092-07:002012-06-12T19:05:14.092-07:00As somone whose career has involved a great deal o...As somone whose career has involved a great deal of avoiding the standard flight-or-fight response, but rather engagement, I believe Susan has a point. People too often feel that someone has to win and someone has to lose, or we have to run like scared chickens. But there is a third path--to lean into conflict, to carefully hear what the other side has to say, and to work towards a situation in which all parties win. Not always doable, but it is amazing how often it's possible when folks take a deep breath and engage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-44652640609117881302012-06-12T16:51:22.931-07:002012-06-12T16:51:22.931-07:00Benedict and Juan, thanks for your comments. Bene...Benedict and Juan, thanks for your comments. Benedict, I am not trying to suggest that Jesus can't work through bureaucratic or legislative structures - if he can rise from the dead, he can do that. And I am certainly not suggesting that everyone is not trying to follow Jesus faithfully. When I said that "we have lost trust in each other as faithful servants of Jesus," I mean that I think a lot of our conflict happens when we FORGET to allow for good intentions and faithful service on the part of all involved. But to me, it is hard to hear the Spirit's voice in a highly structured, adversarial legislative context like General Convention, or in a hierarchical staff structure, and I certainly don't think the current proposed budget allows much room for evangelism or Christian formation. I think the Spirit's voice is much better heard in prayer and discernment, across the whole church, and I hope we will allow room for that to happen. I would caution against making long-term restructuring decisions on the basis of short-term budget shortfalls, before that listening has occurred. <br /><br />Juan, I did mention proclaiming the kingdom of God as our mission (3rd paragraph), so I think we are in agreement there. I do think that proclaiming Jesus and his ongoing life and ministry is part of our proclamation of the Kingdom of God. <br /><br />Thanks for engaging in the discussion.Susan Brown Snookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18082261006216548874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-9989072120612851272012-06-12T14:53:06.888-07:002012-06-12T14:53:06.888-07:00If we were having "conversations" that l...If we were having "conversations" that led to "holy common life" I'd be fine. But we have a dysfunctional need to throw down conflict upon conflict, often with no possible outcome other than win/lose, and we do so without adequately resolving any of them.<br /><br />TEC is monochrome - disproportionately white, aging/aged, affluent and big city. Our "conversations" have only accelerated that.<br /><br />"The cry, 'Won't somebody think of Jesus?' seems like a dangerous reduction of other voices, standing as it does on the assumption that others are not." OK, what in the world does this mean? Do you realize at all that TEC has developed an insider's vocabulary and group-think every bit as clubby and impenetrable as the "churchianese" of the evangelical subculture? By trying to think of Jesus, which we PROMISE to do in our Baptismal Covenant, we "assume that others are not?" <br /><br />I'm sorry, I can't go on with my comment. I've read what you said again and I am more convinced than when I began that the TEC represented by GC and comments like yours has lost any coherent connection to Christ and his work.TLF+https://www.blogger.com/profile/01650010433581488888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-15119172559126463402012-06-12T08:34:11.723-07:002012-06-12T08:34:11.723-07:00if the mission of The Church is not the mission of...if the mission of The Church is not the mission of Jesus it can hardly call itself his Body. The mission of Jesus, however, did not consist of going around talking about himself. It consisted, says Mark, of announcing the impending arrival of the Kingdom of God. (lit., God's imperial rule" --NOT pie in the sky but a new world characterized by truth-telling, justice-doing, shalom, and love, IN that order, for each needs the other first. <br />Understandimgs of this that treat the Kingdom of God as either a place somewhere else, later, or an interior reality in the heart would have been incomprehensible to the first Christians, according to Corssan and NT Wright (and when those two agree, you got something!)Juan Oliverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03343202897355444037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-85036181545199350582012-06-12T08:16:46.275-07:002012-06-12T08:16:46.275-07:00With respect to the work Rev. Snook puts towards t...With respect to the work Rev. Snook puts towards these topics, the structure of this piece makes me a bit nervous: it seems to put forward the notion that Jesus wouldn't like our beaurocratic conversations, but then suggests resolving it by adhering to Rev. Snook's contributions to those conversations in an effort to depart from them with the greatest ease.<br /><br />Again, respectfully, I'd invite us to consider that the Holy Spirit continues to move within our conversations, and that it's listening to one another with as much grace and patience as possible that lives out the holiness of the common life we have in Christ. It may well be a matter of the strangeness of human sin that we live part of our holy lives in things as mundane as budget conversations in anxious times, but I'm inclined to take "knittingboykit's" point a step farther and stand on the fact that those conversations are expressions of our mission and ministry, and not distractions from it. I'd also note that anxiety pushes us to resolve things by reduction, rather than nuance, and that this may not always be the "best" answer.<br /><br />The cry, "Won't somebody think of Jesus?" seems like a dangerous reduction of other voices, standing as it does on the assumption that others are not. What if we instead begin with the grace of imagining that all conversation partners ARE thinking of Jesus? Surely we'd learn something about how much greater than the vision of any single person this Word of God come among us can be.Benedict Varnumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05820031784937119857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-38687177807876968052012-06-12T07:26:46.141-07:002012-06-12T07:26:46.141-07:00I agree - Mission is not something that happens so...I agree - Mission is not something that happens somewhere else, that we're supposed to give money to support. Mission is what we do as Christians every day. Mission IS important - but let's get the definition right. All the people of God have a mission.Susan Brown Snookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18082261006216548874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1748991130484013814.post-29163400038349577382012-06-12T07:22:12.785-07:002012-06-12T07:22:12.785-07:00This is a great piece. But let's be clear--hos...This is a great piece. But let's be clear--hospitality and inclusion ARE missional issues. They are right at the core of reconciling to world in Christ. Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of hearing about how much more important "Mission" is than the important missional work some of us do EVERY DAY of our lives, not because we want to but because we are called to, because it is inescapable part of who and what we are as Children of God. Mission is not about "them" in the same way that the old fasioned "mission field" is not just Africa or Asia or some place where the Other dwells in decrepitutde and squalor. It's about reconciling the world we have RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW with God in Christ.knittingboykithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03342826861575269211noreply@blogger.com